Loaded for Bear

Over at GunPundit, some photos of Oregon State Police SWAT personnel searching for a suspected cop shooter.

Looks like the Oregon State Police could take on the Afghanistan National Army.

Comments

  1. First, what are they doing “clearing” people’s homes in DAY 3?

    Second, they’ve got the hardware. What I haven’t seen is any indication that they have the backbone to put it to use on anyone that is shooting back.

  2. Here’s how a Miami SWAT team reacted when going after a cop shooter back in 2006:

    MIAMI – A fugitive gunman accused of killing a Florida sheriff’s deputy was shot 68 times by SWAT team officers who found him hiding in the woods, according to autopsy results.

    Police fired 110 shots at Angilo Freeland, 27, the target of a massive manhunt in central Florida following the shooting death of Polk County Sheriff’s Deputy Matt Williams Thursday.

    “That’s all the bullets we had, or we would have shot him more,” Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd told the Orlando Sentinel newspaper.

    Judd said Williams was “executed” after Freeland was pulled over in a routine traffic stop on Thursday. Another deputy was wounded and a police dog killed.

    Williams, 39, was shot eight times—one bullet fired at close range behind the deputy’s right ear and another in his right temple, according to autopsy results released on Saturday by the sheriff’s office.

    Sheriff’s officials said SWAT team members found Freeland on Friday hiding under a fallen oak tree in a wooded area near where the deputies were shot, and began firing when they saw a gun in his hand.

    1. Eh, when it is a scumbag like that I don’t care about how much ammo they used, just that he was taken out.

    1. And if someone shoots a citizen, the cops shrug their shoulders, write a report and go get another cup of coffee.

      Color me unsympathetic — especially when I’m the one that’s potentially caught in the crossfire by these poorly trained maniacs on a vengeance mission.

      1. Judging from your this, I doubt you know many cops. They have every reason to hunt down a madman who goes around shooting officers on patrol, he’s a threat to everyone else too.

        1. Are you actually suggesting that the police should be allowed to summarily execute someone they suspect of killing a cop?

          That’s sure what it sounds like.

          1. Execute? Nope. Take down a man who clearly murdered a police officer? Yes. Arrest is preferable but I would rather have him shot and killed than any officers or civilians wounded in the process.

    2. Before anyone gets out of hand….Yes, cop shooters should be brought to justice. The same as everyone else who shoots someone. And though I don’t necessarily think that the LE agencies going overboard because it was a cop shot instead of someone else is warranted, I expect it and don’t really have a problem with it.

      The fact that these SWAT guys are door-to-dooring like the 1st Infantry Division seems a little overdone, though.

  3. Poorly trained? Half the guys on my local swat team are also National Guard infantrymen. If anyone is poorly trained don’t blame them, blame the politicians for cutting the training budget. Don’t expect them to be sucking air like the guy in one of those photos either.

    1. Your team is the exception. Most cops, including those on the SWAT teams, pull a trigger exactly 50 times a year at qualification time.

      Most places, the only reason guys are on the SWAT team is the pay bump and the chance to get off the street and go bust down some doors on some non-violent warrants. (Or doors of some innocent citizens who didn’t do anything but piss off a paid informant. But, you know, everyone’s human, gotta break some eggs, yadda yadda.) And most SWAT teams don’t exist because there is a need in their jurisdiction — they are there because the feds wanted to dump some surplus equipment and funding, and it was “make a SWAT team or leave money on the table.”

      1. Ah I was just kind of thinking along these lines. I can’t stand half-assed “SWAT” teams. Either be pro or call in the guys from the next county/city who can do it. I think the term SWAT is a bit overused. The true teams deserve the name but otherwise probably quite a few should just be called a special response team, crisis team, incident team, or something a bit more true.

        1. If it were “Phelps the Everlasting applying the Rules of Peel,” I would do away with SWAT teams for all but the most dangerous of jurisdictions, and put a 7.62 rifle, assault vest, helmet and a blowout kit in the trunk of every car. It would do a lot more good than sending teams out on warrants that would be better served by a constable in a blazer and tie that most SWAT teams occupy their day with.

          1. This might be the most sensible thing I have read on the Internet today.

            Imagine just waiting for the guy to leave his house to stop him with a warrant, instead of busting down his door in the middle of the night with six guys in helmets and full tac gear and shooting his dog. Only to find a bag of weed, to which he is charged with child endangerment. Oh yeah, his kids are home when they do this too.

            I really try not to be a hater, and police really are just enforcing the laws that we allow on the books. But I really don’t like the general trend of modern law enforcement.

  4. There is a damn good reason law enforcement has access to much better equipment these days. Generally criminals have greater access to illegally obtained firepower and in some cases body armor.

    When hunting a cop killer like this I am pleased to see officers in heavy body armor and with carbines rather than going up against such a threat with pistols and light vests.

    1. BS.

      Before the NFA, you could buy a machine gun from a drug store. Criminals have always been well equipped.

      Your own language betrays you. The police shouldn’t be “hunting” anyone, even an alleged murderer. “Cop killer” doesn’t matter — that’s my original point. They don’t go through these efforts when another citizen is killed, but they’ll pull out all the stops for a vengeance mission.

      Cops have set themselves up under the theory that they are “just like you and me… only better.” If you want to know why the general citizenry, rather than just the criminals, are slowly turning against the police, that’s it. The police are treating everyone like they are criminals, and therefore everyone is starting to react to the police like a criminal.

  5. Yet the problem isn’t guns bought legally. It’s all sorts of stuff ending up on the streets illegally in the hands of people who otherwise wouldn’t have the money for such things.

    We’ve all seen how much of a problem body armor can be to handguns and buckshot, for that I reason I think it makes sense for each cruiser to have a 5.56mm carbine in back or at least such equipment immediately available back at the PD. As far as the body armor the cops are wearing, I have no problem with it being military grade stuff, my problem is simply the camouflage they are using. They should stick to the standard black color gear that immediately generates that police/SWAT connection.

    “Hunting” works fine for me, somebody who goes around shooting cops doing traffic shops isn’t much more than an animal. Yes vengeance provides an extra drive, but who can blame them? They have every reason to arrest or if need be kill somebody like that, and when they know who it is they should deploy in full force.

    As far as citizens who get killed, it is much less often you know who actually did it. Yet when the identify of a murderer is known, local PDs (with external help in some cases) do go searching. It’s not all donuts and coffee.

    You have good cops and bad cops but most cops view it is simply a job. They want to get paid and get home just as much as the next guy. If the general citizenry has a negative view of cops it is because of what our culture teaches. Mistakes do indeed occur and they are amplified by the people who willingly ignore what gets done right.

    1. You have good cops and bad cops but most cops view it is simply a job. They want to get paid and get home just as much as the next guy.

      And if you talked to a cop from 50 years ago, it wasn’t “simply a job”. It was calling. And getting paid and going home went second to protecting and serving.

      If anything has degraded the police community more than anything, it is the “everybody goes home” mentality. Which implicity means, “everybody who is a cop goes home, and everbody eles gets whatever is left over.”

      1. Every town or city is different, yet all I see you doing is grouping all cops together as power hungry and lazy. Most cops do take a degree of pride in what their doing, but even those cops 50 years ago would get worn down by the same routine. In many places where crime is high, public service, dealing with people who resent you for 10 years isn’t going to seem like much of a calling anymore.

        I don’t know what your idea is, but going back to just giving officers a .38 caliber revolver, handcuffs, and a nightstick isn’t going to accomplish anything other than some more fatalities.

        The resentment of cops which you yourself seem to demonstrate to some degree only makes things worse. When an attitude like yours is common it does cause stress and other factors that lead to an overuse of force. When people are always going to portray you as the bad guy your naturally not going to be as concerned for the public welfare as much as doing your job and going home to your family. And no the problem isn’t the people who become cops or the gear they have.

        1. So, in other words, cops have to bash people’s heads in because I’m worked up over cops bashing people’s heads in all the time. It’s my fault. Got it.

          I’m not advocating gearing the cops down. If you look up about six comments, I’m advocating gearing them up. What I don’t like is the general attitude that tasers belong right next to authority voice on the force continuum, that “contempt of cop” has become an arresting offense, that cops refer to their fellow citizens as “civilians”, and all the other degradations that come from thinking of themselves as a military arm instead of a police force.

          1. I don’t think we are going to come to an agreement here. But yes, stress and disdain on both sides will increase your change of getting your head bashed in if you do cause trouble. That public contempt of cops feeds into their feelings about much of the general public being scumbags, which can result in rougher treatment when taking down a suspect. The truth is it’s everybodys fault here.

            Don’t take my occasional use of civilian over citizen the wrong way. I am not a police officer myself although I have known many. My poorly used choice of civilian there is more due to my own background.

          2. Heh, we can’t even agree on the last part — I would blame your using civilian because it has become a ubiquitous mentality of cops and has bled into everyone’s thinking.

            The words we choose are powerful They subtly color our very thoughts. If you consciously choose to change a few words in your vocabulary, you can over time change your entire outlook.

            Remember, Batman always said “citizen.”

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