Dean on the war against Muslims

Question for Michelle Malkin: Does the Conscience of a Conservative Still Exist?

to Victory

Dean Esmay is getting tired of some drivel coming from the Right:

This very statement–that Islam is incompatible with democracy–is why I fight so hard with many of my friends on the Right: accepting that statement means we have to declare war on the entire Muslim world if we’re to hope for human freedom to survive.

Other than pointing out that many on the Left say the exact same thing, using it as a reason why our efforts in the Middle East are doomed to failure, I pretty much agree with his post. As I noted yesterday, the fact that virtually everyone we’re currently at war with is Muslim doesn’t mean that we’re at war with all Muslims.

There are two very distinct groups: those that are our enemies and those that are not. Granted, sometimes it can be a bit difficult to tell them apart, but the fact remains that many Muslims are on our side and many more are not, yet still opposed to the jihadists who are trying to destroy civilization as we know it. I do truly wish that we’d see more open rejection of the jihadists by civilized Muslims, and I’m troubled that we don’t. Until we do, I fear that we’re going to have trouble making much more progress.

Yesterday I cautioned against thinking that the kinder, gentler approach we should be taking with the vast majority of Muslims must not be used with the fraction that is actively trying to kill us. Today I caution that we don’t let that fraction make us forget all about the kinder, gentler approach.

“Islam is incompatible with democracy” is an obvious lie and nothing more than bigoted ignorance. Or is it ignorant bigotry? Either way, it’s shameful.


  1. And there Bram goes and illustrates the problem with the first comment. Not only does he not separate Muslims from Islamic fascists, but he expands the mix to include Arabs too! Whether its ignorance or bigotry, it is shameful.

  2. Please Jaymaster, tell me how you seperate Muslims from Islamic fascists. I would love to know. I’m sure our troops in Iraq and Afganistan would also.

  3. The only long-term successful Democracy in the Muslim world is Turkey. The factors that made it a success: 1. A visionary homegrown founder – Mustafa Kemal Ataturk. 2. A very, very strict separation of church and state enforced by the Turkish Army. 3. They aren’t Arabs or Persians. It remains to be seen if Democracy can succeed in other Muslim countries. I sure hope so.

  4. Fellers, I’m with Ms. Malkin on this issue. Unless and until and actual ‘moderate muslim’ group steps forward and publicly identifies itself, Muslims will be no better than the Germans in Nazi Germany. The Terrorists cannot succeed without help from Muslims. They need money, shelter, food and weapons. If there really are moderate muslims, ones who will embrace democracy and the seperation of the religious and secular, then where are they? Where is the great Islamic Rennaissance? Where is the Islamic Age of Enlightenment? Unless and until muslims can pull Islam out of the 8th century and into the 21st, there can be no differentiating between the Islamic Facists and other muslims. Democracy CANNOT succeed in an Islamic country unless and until muslims understand the difference between secular and religious, that the national, secular government must ALWAYS triumph over the religious laws, that Islam may be seen as a guide, but NOT as LAW. That will only happen when the Madrassas are torn down and radical imams are either dead or jailed. It is very possible that Democracy can take hold in both Afghanistan and Iraq, and other Islamic nations. But it will not begin to grow as long as Al-Sadr and other religious nutjobs are allowed to own and command militias, to spout their religious drivel, and pro,ulgate/enforce Sharia. Respects.

  5. Bram is correct, and here are the statistics to prove it. Support for attacks against US-led forces has increased sharply to 61 percent (27% strongly, 34% somewhat). This represents a 14-point increase from January 2006, when only 47 percent of Iraqis supported attacks. Frankly, I don’t see why this should be such a surprise to us. How would we feel if another country invaded ours? Pretty much the same, right? No matter how screwed up your country is, most people are going to back the home team. Add to that the fact we killed a lot of their sons and what do you think that is going to do, make them love us? You don’t go into someones country and set up a new government for them unless you’ve defeated that country. We did not defeat Iraq. We defeated Iraq’s military, but we did not defeat Iraq. We can talk all the crap we want to about how we ‘freed them from a tyrannical dictator’, but the bottom line is if you’re going to go into a country and tell them how to run their business, you’d better defeat them first, and we did not do that. We don’t even know how to do that. We have not had a plan to defeat anyone since the end of WW2. We never had a plan for defeating the Soviets. What was our plan? If they sent nukes our way, we’d send nukes back at them. Does that defeat the Soviet Union? NO. It hurts them, but it does not defeat them. The closest we ever came to having a plan to defeat them was when Regan proposed SDI. That would allow us to shoot down their missiles and nuke their country. Even then, we had no way to send troops over there in sufficient quantities to defeat the USSR. All we could do is make them more miserable than us, and as they were already pretty darn miserable the threat broke them.

  6. Well, here’s an example of a person who is a Muslim, and not an Islamic fascist: There’s a guy that used to work here. He’s Muslim, with a Muslim wife, & Muslim kids. Born in Egypt, move to the US in the late 60’s. He votes here in every election, solid Republican. Thinks the invasion of Iraq was a great idea. He also thinks the Islamic terrorists are completely out of touch with the religion, and he has no qualms about killing them on spot. Oh, he also served 8 years in the US Army, top secret clearance. And go over to Deans World, and read what Aziz Poonwalla has to say. He’s a Muslim, not a fascist. Not a Republican by any means though. But still. He believes in freedom. And if you want some examples of democratic countries with large, non-fascist Islamic populations, look at Malaysia or India. Yes, there is undeniably a certain group of Muslims who want to see their version of Islam rule the world. And they are willing to kill us and kill themselves in the process of carrying out their vision. Hell, they tell us as much. And I am all for killing them before they kill us. But there are also hundreds of millions of Muslims who don’t agree with those fascists. Some are vocally and even violently opposed to the fascists. Many of those Muslims are fighting along our side our side already. And we surely can’t afford to alienate them by throwing them in the same category as the fascists. Many Muslims don’t seem to be involved with the struggle against the fascists, pro or con. Yes, some of those are hard to judge. Now maybe we could just kill them all too, and be done with it. But I don’t think that is practical or morally justifiable, at least not yet. There might come a time when that needs to be done, but until then, we need to be trying to win them over to our way of thinking. Or at least trying to get them off the fence. If they choose the fascist side, then by all means, send them to Allah. But if they choose our path, we should welcome them as our allies

  7. I had a friend in college who was from Malaysia. He was a Christian. He said then that Christians were being persecuted for their faith there. That was decades ago. Somehow I don’t think things have gotten better since then. Check out this link from Drudge. Apparently the Defense Department does not agree with you or Dean either.