Comments on: Tavors in Azerbaijan

By: Vitor

Vitor — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 14:32:00 +0000

Oh, Now i remember the adjective i was trying to say…close-minded, yeah, americans are close-minded when it comes to bullpup stuff.

By: Vitor

Vitor — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 14:26:00 +0000

I’d say that americans are quite stubborn and ‘xenophobic’ when it comes to bullpup designs.

By: Hawk

Hawk — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 12:46:00 +0000

The US Army evaluated-demonstrated both the Tavor and SAR 21 in 2000 and again in 2003 (that I know of) attemping to assess the value of the bullpup configuration. In the 2000 evaluation the M4 outshot both other rifles, and the troops involved didn’t like the ergonomics of either bullpup. In the 2003 demonstration, accuracy was pretty similar between all three weapons, but the troops involved again complained about the ergonomics of the design. Awkward reloading of the magazine in the armpit was the major complaint, but the Tavor also took significant flak for poor balance — it’s pretty rear-heavy and more difficult to easily transition. The SAR 21 was considered a better balanced weapon and got better marks than the Tavor among the bullpup weapons (which also included the universally-panned FN2000). M4 was still preferred overall. I do wonder how much the complaints about ease of reloading might go away with troops who train from basic forward with a bullpup design, compared to those familiar with the AR layout. The Brits do like the SA80A2, now that HK has fixed it.

By: Bram

Bram — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 09:52:00 +0000

I thought the Isrealis position on rifles was thus: – dropped the Galil – reliable but too damn heavy. Wouldn’t be surprised if they showed up if there was a big battle out in the high desert. – Uncle Sam is basicly giving them M4/16’s – Tavor is the future and a foriegn money maker – reliable as a Galil, light as an M4, more ergonomic and accurate (in the full size version) than either. First negative review I’ve heard of the Tavor.

By: Hawk

Hawk — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 08:49:00 +0000

Tavor story: a couple of years ago in a previous life, my boss headed over to Israel for a number of meetings with their Infantry folks. We had evaluated the Tavor about a year prior (it got pretty poor reviews from US troopers used to AR-configuration weapons), so he was interested in seeing what the Israelis thought about it. Problem was, no one was carrying one — everything he saw was M4s and M16s. He finally found a guy carrying a Tavor, so he asked him: ‘How do you like it? You’re the first one I’ve seen carrying it.’ The guy responded that he didn’t have much choice — he was the commander of their marksmanship training unit so he pretty much had to carry one to show the flag; given his preference he’d have been carrying an M4.

By: Vitor

Vitor — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:56:00 +0000

They are Tavors indeed. The SAR-21 has a much smaller butt. My favourite AR! In a a world where the most powerful country is still insisting on direct impingement crap, its good see a really good design having success. I heard its very, very ergonomic.

By: Murdoc

Murdoc — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:55:00 +0000

That’s makeup?!? I though maybe people in Azerbaijan were that color. And I don’t know why you’re criticizing their color, anyway. You said yourself that you’re green.

By: Bram

Bram — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:12:00 +0000

Just green with jealously. I could do without the Braveheart makeup, girl-scout council armband, weight-lifting gloves, and tele-marketer headsets. Who designed their uniforms – a bad 1980’s action film director?

By: Murdoc

Murdoc — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:35:00 +0000

You gotta hand it to Bram for consistency. Not knocking you, Bram.You just crack me up. It’s like you have a radar that alerts you to opportunities to slam the M16/M4. (It’s probably always going off…)

By: Bram

Bram — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:22:00 +0000

I assumed they were SAR-21’s. Nice that soldiers from places I couldn’t find on a map have better rifles than us.