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	<title>Comments on: Gee, I hope they&#8217;re okay&#8230;</title>
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		<title>By: Phelps</title>
		<link>http://www.murdoconline.net/archives/6356.html/comment-page-1#comment-337670</link>
		<dc:creator>Phelps</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 14:31:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;i&gt;However, when you cache your mortar ammo under a bunch of sand, and don’t clean the tube, this is bound to happen.&lt;/i&gt;

That&#039;s what I mean -- I would consider that incompetence rather than some sort of problem with the weapon itself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>However, when you cache your mortar ammo under a bunch of sand, and don’t clean the tube, this is bound to happen.</i></p>
<p>That&#8217;s what I mean &#8212; I would consider that incompetence rather than some sort of problem with the weapon itself.</p>
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		<title>By: Hawk</title>
		<link>http://www.murdoconline.net/archives/6356.html/comment-page-1#comment-337656</link>
		<dc:creator>Hawk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 01:47:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Oh, yeah, on that L60 ammo ... the projos may be older, but they were remanufactured in the mid-90s to put on new dual-safe fuzes (after an incident where the old single-safe fuze exploded in the cannon on board an aircraft).  Now the hundreds of thousands of rounds of 40mm AP manufactured in &#039;44 and &#039;45 still in the inventory are another story, but you never know when those things might come in handy ;)

And the USAF is both making new 30mm PGU-13 HEI, and remanufacturing aged-out PGU-14 API, so there&#039;s no danger of A10 guns falling silent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, yeah, on that L60 ammo &#8230; the projos may be older, but they were remanufactured in the mid-90s to put on new dual-safe fuzes (after an incident where the old single-safe fuze exploded in the cannon on board an aircraft).  Now the hundreds of thousands of rounds of 40mm AP manufactured in &#8217;44 and &#8217;45 still in the inventory are another story, but you never know when those things might come in handy ;)</p>
<p>And the USAF is both making new 30mm PGU-13 HEI, and remanufacturing aged-out PGU-14 API, so there&#8217;s no danger of A10 guns falling silent.</p>
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		<title>By: Hawk</title>
		<link>http://www.murdoconline.net/archives/6356.html/comment-page-1#comment-337655</link>
		<dc:creator>Hawk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 01:30:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.murdoconline.net/?p=6356#comment-337655</guid>
		<description>Shit happens.  This isn&#039;t the first captured footage I&#039;ve seen of a rocket or mortar that has detonated on the firer.  Most likely causes are poor quality fuzes assembled in an armed position (Soviet munitions are notorious for being single-safe designs), quality defect in the shell propelling charge, or fouled/damaged mortar tube.

This has happened with US mortars before -- I remember an investigation from a training incident that caused several casualties, but wasn&#039;t directly involved so I don&#039;t know the root cause of the failure.

Reference GAU-8 ammo ... the Air Force suspends that ammunition at 25 years of storage (unlike the Army, which doesn&#039;t have shelf life criterion for ammo under 5 inches).  L60 ammo is much older, as it doesn&#039;t have the same shelf life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shit happens.  This isn&#8217;t the first captured footage I&#8217;ve seen of a rocket or mortar that has detonated on the firer.  Most likely causes are poor quality fuzes assembled in an armed position (Soviet munitions are notorious for being single-safe designs), quality defect in the shell propelling charge, or fouled/damaged mortar tube.</p>
<p>This has happened with US mortars before &#8212; I remember an investigation from a training incident that caused several casualties, but wasn&#8217;t directly involved so I don&#8217;t know the root cause of the failure.</p>
<p>Reference GAU-8 ammo &#8230; the Air Force suspends that ammunition at 25 years of storage (unlike the Army, which doesn&#8217;t have shelf life criterion for ammo under 5 inches).  L60 ammo is much older, as it doesn&#8217;t have the same shelf life.</p>
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		<title>By: Chad</title>
		<link>http://www.murdoconline.net/archives/6356.html/comment-page-1#comment-337654</link>
		<dc:creator>Chad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 23:50:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.murdoconline.net/?p=6356#comment-337654</guid>
		<description>Good Point Mr. Watters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good Point Mr. Watters.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel E. Watters</title>
		<link>http://www.murdoconline.net/archives/6356.html/comment-page-1#comment-337652</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel E. Watters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 22:06:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.murdoconline.net/?p=6356#comment-337652</guid>
		<description>Phelps wrote:

&quot;Our A-10s are (or at least were at the start of the invasion) firing 30mm HE ammunition made before Korea&quot;

That would be a neat trick since the US didn&#039;t have any 30x173mm cannon in inventory until the GAU-8 was developed for the A-10.  The GAU-8 development program didn&#039;t get underway until 1971.

Now I might believe that there was ancient 40mm cannon ammo in inventory for the Bofors 40mm/L60 used in the AC-130.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phelps wrote:</p>
<p>&#8220;Our A-10s are (or at least were at the start of the invasion) firing 30mm HE ammunition made before Korea&#8221;</p>
<p>That would be a neat trick since the US didn&#8217;t have any 30x173mm cannon in inventory until the GAU-8 was developed for the A-10.  The GAU-8 development program didn&#8217;t get underway until 1971.</p>
<p>Now I might believe that there was ancient 40mm cannon ammo in inventory for the Bofors 40mm/L60 used in the AC-130.</p>
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		<title>By: Kristopher</title>
		<link>http://www.murdoconline.net/archives/6356.html/comment-page-1#comment-337650</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 18:19:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Russian ammo.

Oh, and toejam ... those PETN rounds fired just fine through test AKs, even the ones with oversized ball bearings under the bullet. And &#039;sploding mortar rounds was just par for the course for Soviet munitions.

The program was dropped for lack of determinable results.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Russian ammo.</p>
<p>Oh, and toejam &#8230; those PETN rounds fired just fine through test AKs, even the ones with oversized ball bearings under the bullet. And &#8216;sploding mortar rounds was just par for the course for Soviet munitions.</p>
<p>The program was dropped for lack of determinable results.</p>
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		<title>By: Chad</title>
		<link>http://www.murdoconline.net/archives/6356.html/comment-page-1#comment-337649</link>
		<dc:creator>Chad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 17:14:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.murdoconline.net/?p=6356#comment-337649</guid>
		<description>Phelps, hate to pick at nits, note that I also said Soviet rounds.  As in, old soviet rounds, which don&#039;t usually involve quite the same type of quality controls.  Mind you, Soviet(I&#039;m not calling them russians, look at Putins actions) weapons are perfectly deadly when maintained and stored properly.  AKs are about as simple as a good weapon can be.  However, when you cache your mortar ammo under a bunch of sand, and don&#039;t clean the tube, this is bound to happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phelps, hate to pick at nits, note that I also said Soviet rounds.  As in, old soviet rounds, which don&#8217;t usually involve quite the same type of quality controls.  Mind you, Soviet(I&#8217;m not calling them russians, look at Putins actions) weapons are perfectly deadly when maintained and stored properly.  AKs are about as simple as a good weapon can be.  However, when you cache your mortar ammo under a bunch of sand, and don&#8217;t clean the tube, this is bound to happen.</p>
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		<title>By: Toejam</title>
		<link>http://www.murdoconline.net/archives/6356.html/comment-page-1#comment-337648</link>
		<dc:creator>Toejam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 16:25:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.murdoconline.net/?p=6356#comment-337648</guid>
		<description>Could this 43-year old Vietnam scenario be the culprit?

One of the commanders of MACV-SOG &lt;b&gt;General Jack Singlaub&lt;/b&gt;, created a plan to sabotage the significant number of ammunition cashes that SOG&#039;s reconnaissance teams were locating along the Ho Chi Minh Trail.

Singlaub wished to instill fear and mistrust in the enemy, so that they would question the reliabilit of their equipment. Using different code names like &quot;Project Eldest Son,&quot; &quot;Italian Green&quot; or &quot;Pole Bean&quot;, SOG recon teams would insert special rounds filled with PETN, a highly explosive compound. When the
unsuspecting VC or NVA would use the rounds; the resulting explosions would cause the bolt and receiver of the weapon to blow back through the enemy’s head. &lt;b&gt;Both AK-47 rounds and 82mm mortar ammo were contaminated.&lt;/b&gt; The effectiveness of this operation was difficult to assess, because the victims&#039; of this ploy could hardly attest to how effective it was.

Read more in a book titled: &lt;b&gt;Good to Go&lt;/b&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could this 43-year old Vietnam scenario be the culprit?</p>
<p>One of the commanders of MACV-SOG <b>General Jack Singlaub</b>, created a plan to sabotage the significant number of ammunition cashes that SOG&#8217;s reconnaissance teams were locating along the Ho Chi Minh Trail.</p>
<p>Singlaub wished to instill fear and mistrust in the enemy, so that they would question the reliabilit of their equipment. Using different code names like &#8220;Project Eldest Son,&#8221; &#8220;Italian Green&#8221; or &#8220;Pole Bean&#8221;, SOG recon teams would insert special rounds filled with PETN, a highly explosive compound. When the<br />
unsuspecting VC or NVA would use the rounds; the resulting explosions would cause the bolt and receiver of the weapon to blow back through the enemy’s head. <b>Both AK-47 rounds and 82mm mortar ammo were contaminated.</b> The effectiveness of this operation was difficult to assess, because the victims&#8217; of this ploy could hardly attest to how effective it was.</p>
<p>Read more in a book titled: <b>Good to Go</b></p>
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		<title>By: Bram</title>
		<link>http://www.murdoconline.net/archives/6356.html/comment-page-1#comment-337645</link>
		<dc:creator>Bram</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 14:13:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.murdoconline.net/?p=6356#comment-337645</guid>
		<description>God is Great.

I wonder if they bought thier ammo from Christians In Action.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>God is Great.</p>
<p>I wonder if they bought thier ammo from Christians In Action.</p>
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		<title>By: Flanker</title>
		<link>http://www.murdoconline.net/archives/6356.html/comment-page-1#comment-337644</link>
		<dc:creator>Flanker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:33:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>This clip is deeply satisfying on a couple of levels.

1: When I was stationed outside Kandahar.....the local zealots to our NE/E were routinely firing rockets (yea, I know......this was a motar...same, same to me though)over our heads towards the airbase to our SW.  As far as I know, they never caused any casualties at the airbase, and it was certainly on our minds any one of those rockets could have a fin fall off, or the motor cut off early; dropping it quite fatally on our heads.  Anyway, the fact they didn&#039;t kill any of us wasn&#039;t for lack of intent or trying.  Watching their spiritual Brothers get theirs in this fit of incompentance is just too satisfying.

2: As an agnostic...........it&#039;s wildly humorous to watch two guys praising God get.................well...............harvested to his bousom for lack of a better term.  :)   Guess he wanted to spend more time with &#039;em.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This clip is deeply satisfying on a couple of levels.</p>
<p>1: When I was stationed outside Kandahar&#8230;..the local zealots to our NE/E were routinely firing rockets (yea, I know&#8230;&#8230;this was a motar&#8230;same, same to me though)over our heads towards the airbase to our SW.  As far as I know, they never caused any casualties at the airbase, and it was certainly on our minds any one of those rockets could have a fin fall off, or the motor cut off early; dropping it quite fatally on our heads.  Anyway, the fact they didn&#8217;t kill any of us wasn&#8217;t for lack of intent or trying.  Watching their spiritual Brothers get theirs in this fit of incompentance is just too satisfying.</p>
<p>2: As an agnostic&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..it&#8217;s wildly humorous to watch two guys praising God get&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..well&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;harvested to his bousom for lack of a better term.  :)   Guess he wanted to spend more time with &#8216;em.</p>
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