<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Video of Styker MGS in Iraq</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.murdoconline.net/archives/7910.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.murdoconline.net/archives/7910.html</link>
	<description>Just another WordPress weblog</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 17:42:34 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Blacktail</title>
		<link>http://www.murdoconline.net/archives/7910.html/comment-page-1#comment-342765</link>
		<dc:creator>Blacktail</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:27:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.murdoconline.net/?p=7910#comment-342765</guid>
		<description>Bram,

A regular M68A1 doesn&#039;t have a muzzle brake on an M1 or IPM1, simply because a 27-ton recoil isn&#039;t a problem for a 70-ton tank. Because it has no muzzle break, most of the overpressure from the main gun goes forward --- provided you cover your ears and wear protection for your eyes, a single 105mm shot from an M1 won&#039;t injure you if you&#039;re on top of it or next to it.

The MGS, however, uses a &quot;Pepperpot&quot;-style muzzle brake, which the &quot;breechblock incident&quot; demonstrated it cannot operate without. One of the side effects is a more destructive muzzle blast.
This article is old, but the MGS&#039; muzzle-brake dilemma simply can&#039;t be fixed without replacing the M68A1 with an entirely new main gun --- the laws of physics don&#039;t go away over time, contrary to the &quot;Dated Information&quot; Fallacy popular among Stryker apologists;
http://www.g2mil.com/Stryker.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bram,</p>
<p>A regular M68A1 doesn&#8217;t have a muzzle brake on an M1 or IPM1, simply because a 27-ton recoil isn&#8217;t a problem for a 70-ton tank. Because it has no muzzle break, most of the overpressure from the main gun goes forward &#8212; provided you cover your ears and wear protection for your eyes, a single 105mm shot from an M1 won&#8217;t injure you if you&#8217;re on top of it or next to it.</p>
<p>The MGS, however, uses a &#8220;Pepperpot&#8221;-style muzzle brake, which the &#8220;breechblock incident&#8221; demonstrated it cannot operate without. One of the side effects is a more destructive muzzle blast.<br />
This article is old, but the MGS&#8217; muzzle-brake dilemma simply can&#8217;t be fixed without replacing the M68A1 with an entirely new main gun &#8212; the laws of physics don&#8217;t go away over time, contrary to the &#8220;Dated Information&#8221; Fallacy popular among Stryker apologists;<br />
<a href="http://www.g2mil.com/Stryker.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.g2mil.com/Stryker.htm</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bram</title>
		<link>http://www.murdoconline.net/archives/7910.html/comment-page-1#comment-342752</link>
		<dc:creator>Bram</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:46:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.murdoconline.net/?p=7910#comment-342752</guid>
		<description>A few years ago my unit was at the Dix tank range.  An M-1 on the line had a commo failure so two of us ran up and replaced their radio.  We must have done a great job because the range went hot while we were climbing off the tank.  The tank 10 feet to our left decided to fire a 105mm Heat round.

I don&#039;t know if I suffered permanent hearing loss but my wife says I never listen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A few years ago my unit was at the Dix tank range.  An M-1 on the line had a commo failure so two of us ran up and replaced their radio.  We must have done a great job because the range went hot while we were climbing off the tank.  The tank 10 feet to our left decided to fire a 105mm Heat round.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if I suffered permanent hearing loss but my wife says I never listen.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Blacktail</title>
		<link>http://www.murdoconline.net/archives/7910.html/comment-page-1#comment-342751</link>
		<dc:creator>Blacktail</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 10:44:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.murdoconline.net/?p=7910#comment-342751</guid>
		<description>The Stryker &quot;Mobile&quot; Gun System certainly looks formidable... until you scrape off the all-too-thin gilding;

- Notice that no one EVER stands within 1000 yards of an MGS while it fires? They&#039;d suffer permanant hearing loss if they did.
- If you stand within 100 yards of an MG muzzle blast, you will DIE from overpressure --- no thanks to the pepperpot muzzlebrake.
- an attempt at firing the 105mm gun without the muzzle brake resulted in the breechblock smashing through the autoloader on the very first shot.
- GDLS contracted-out the design and construction of the MGS&#039; autoloader to Aries, who had no expeience with such technology --- the result was that the MGS&#039; autoloader jams on every 4th shot.
- Any jamming or stoppage in the gun or loader requires partial disassembly by hand, done by crewmen standing skylined and totally exposed atop the 8-foot-tall MGS.
- The COAX machinegun is not fixed to the gun like those fitted to tanks, and requires frequent re-zeroing as an inescapable consequence.
- The COAX is also fed using a complex, delicate, and jam-prone type feeder which the M240 was NOT designed to be able to feed from.
- The M2HB on the roof can only be fired by an exposed VC, and can only aim over the frontal arc. At least one VC was nearly killed by a sniper as a result.
- The so-called &quot;Low Profile Turret&quot;, as you can plainly see, is actually just a gun in an armored sleeve sitting atop a pedestal, and is thus not a turret at all --- it isn&#039;t low-profile, either.
- An empty, stripped-down Stryker MGS weighs 25 tons, and the chopped-up (and thus now more delicate) MOWAG Piranha suspension underneath was designed to support only 12 tons continuously, and 15 tons for short periods.
- Add the 7500lb (3 3/4 ton) &quot;Birdcage Armor&quot;, and an empty MGS now weighs 28 tons. Add a 1 ton of ammunition, fuel, a half-ton of gear, plus a half-ton crww, and you get 30 tons.
- 30 tons atop an 8x8&#039;s footprint of 8 square feet = 62psi. That&#039;s FOUR TIMES as much as the crushing 15psi ground pressure of an M1A1 Abrams, and enough pressure to set-off any pressure-fused mine.
- Only two axles on each Stryker are configured to accept run-flat tires, and only 2 MOWAG axles will instantly SNAP under 25 tons.
- In order to manage the recoil, the 105mm shells are filled with half-power propellant charges in order to reduce suspension damage, turret wear, and the likelihood of a flip-over. not that is works when the turret is traversed 90 degrees;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0g-Wk3FZL6I
- Ever see a video of an MGS firing over 90 degrees on an incline, or @ 45mph, like GDLS and the US Army claim it can? You never will.
- Watering-down the power of the charge results in virtually unpredictable accuracy --- notice how close the MGS always is to the target in all these videos?
- Watering-down the charges also results in a high dud rate, as demonstrated here; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBHnNSURLEA
- The half-power charge also results in perfectly useless APFSDS rounds, because propellant charge power is what makes Sabots work.
- The MGS costs $4.5 Million --- the same as an original M1A2 Abrams, and nearly 3x as much as the 8-ton lighter M8 Armored Gun System that was rejected in favor of the MGS.
- The 105mm M68A1 is a high-recoil-force gun with 27 tons of immediate recoil (it was, after all, designed with a 50-ton MBT in mind --- never anything lighter). It&#039;s a gun too powerful for an Armored Car, fitted to an Armored Car too weak for a large-bore gun.
- GDLS didn&#039;t use a low-recoil-force gun on the MGS, because it would have compromised their parts monopoly on the Stryker --- and they happened to have some left-over M68A1s that they didn&#039;t have to spend any money buying or building (never mind that it puts 27 tons of recoil against a 25-ton Armored Car).


...and that&#039;s only a sample of what&#039;s wrong with the MGS...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Stryker &#8220;Mobile&#8221; Gun System certainly looks formidable&#8230; until you scrape off the all-too-thin gilding;</p>
<p>- Notice that no one EVER stands within 1000 yards of an MGS while it fires? They&#8217;d suffer permanant hearing loss if they did.<br />
- If you stand within 100 yards of an MG muzzle blast, you will DIE from overpressure &#8212; no thanks to the pepperpot muzzlebrake.<br />
- an attempt at firing the 105mm gun without the muzzle brake resulted in the breechblock smashing through the autoloader on the very first shot.<br />
- GDLS contracted-out the design and construction of the MGS&#8217; autoloader to Aries, who had no expeience with such technology &#8212; the result was that the MGS&#8217; autoloader jams on every 4th shot.<br />
- Any jamming or stoppage in the gun or loader requires partial disassembly by hand, done by crewmen standing skylined and totally exposed atop the 8-foot-tall MGS.<br />
- The COAX machinegun is not fixed to the gun like those fitted to tanks, and requires frequent re-zeroing as an inescapable consequence.<br />
- The COAX is also fed using a complex, delicate, and jam-prone type feeder which the M240 was NOT designed to be able to feed from.<br />
- The M2HB on the roof can only be fired by an exposed VC, and can only aim over the frontal arc. At least one VC was nearly killed by a sniper as a result.<br />
- The so-called &#8220;Low Profile Turret&#8221;, as you can plainly see, is actually just a gun in an armored sleeve sitting atop a pedestal, and is thus not a turret at all &#8212; it isn&#8217;t low-profile, either.<br />
- An empty, stripped-down Stryker MGS weighs 25 tons, and the chopped-up (and thus now more delicate) MOWAG Piranha suspension underneath was designed to support only 12 tons continuously, and 15 tons for short periods.<br />
- Add the 7500lb (3 3/4 ton) &#8220;Birdcage Armor&#8221;, and an empty MGS now weighs 28 tons. Add a 1 ton of ammunition, fuel, a half-ton of gear, plus a half-ton crww, and you get 30 tons.<br />
- 30 tons atop an 8&#215;8&#8242;s footprint of 8 square feet = 62psi. That&#8217;s FOUR TIMES as much as the crushing 15psi ground pressure of an M1A1 Abrams, and enough pressure to set-off any pressure-fused mine.<br />
- Only two axles on each Stryker are configured to accept run-flat tires, and only 2 MOWAG axles will instantly SNAP under 25 tons.<br />
- In order to manage the recoil, the 105mm shells are filled with half-power propellant charges in order to reduce suspension damage, turret wear, and the likelihood of a flip-over. not that is works when the turret is traversed 90 degrees;<br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0g-Wk3FZL6I" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0g-Wk3FZL6I</a><br />
- Ever see a video of an MGS firing over 90 degrees on an incline, or @ 45mph, like GDLS and the US Army claim it can? You never will.<br />
- Watering-down the power of the charge results in virtually unpredictable accuracy &#8212; notice how close the MGS always is to the target in all these videos?<br />
- Watering-down the charges also results in a high dud rate, as demonstrated here; <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBHnNSURLEA" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBHnNSURLEA</a><br />
- The half-power charge also results in perfectly useless APFSDS rounds, because propellant charge power is what makes Sabots work.<br />
- The MGS costs $4.5 Million &#8212; the same as an original M1A2 Abrams, and nearly 3x as much as the 8-ton lighter M8 Armored Gun System that was rejected in favor of the MGS.<br />
- The 105mm M68A1 is a high-recoil-force gun with 27 tons of immediate recoil (it was, after all, designed with a 50-ton MBT in mind &#8212; never anything lighter). It&#8217;s a gun too powerful for an Armored Car, fitted to an Armored Car too weak for a large-bore gun.<br />
- GDLS didn&#8217;t use a low-recoil-force gun on the MGS, because it would have compromised their parts monopoly on the Stryker &#8212; and they happened to have some left-over M68A1s that they didn&#8217;t have to spend any money buying or building (never mind that it puts 27 tons of recoil against a 25-ton Armored Car).</p>
<p>&#8230;and that&#8217;s only a sample of what&#8217;s wrong with the MGS&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jay Stranahan</title>
		<link>http://www.murdoconline.net/archives/7910.html/comment-page-1#comment-342747</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay Stranahan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 22:34:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.murdoconline.net/?p=7910#comment-342747</guid>
		<description>By all accounts, the troops love &#039;em. There was a problem early on with the automatic ejector on the gun, but they&#039;ve debugged it now.

Here&#039;s my fave YouTube footage of the beast at work:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48qH64uvx_U</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By all accounts, the troops love &#8216;em. There was a problem early on with the automatic ejector on the gun, but they&#8217;ve debugged it now.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s my fave YouTube footage of the beast at work:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48qH64uvx_U" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48qH64uvx_U</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: GeekLethal</title>
		<link>http://www.murdoconline.net/archives/7910.html/comment-page-1#comment-342744</link>
		<dc:creator>GeekLethal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 19:59:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.murdoconline.net/?p=7910#comment-342744</guid>
		<description>An orphan with Downs walking his three-legged puppy, no doubt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An orphan with Downs walking his three-legged puppy, no doubt.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bram</title>
		<link>http://www.murdoconline.net/archives/7910.html/comment-page-1#comment-342743</link>
		<dc:creator>Bram</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 17:33:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.murdoconline.net/?p=7910#comment-342743</guid>
		<description>There is a second MGS in the background. They are pounding the crap out of something downrange.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a second MGS in the background. They are pounding the crap out of something downrange.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

