Comments on: Well, they’ve obviously not been shooting many poodles lately

By: Blacktail

Blacktail — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 03:03:46 +0000

CETMES and G3s are no featherweights, but anyone who tires out easily while carrying a 10lb rifle isn’t physically fit to be a soldier.

Especially when one considers that an Assault Rifle isn’t just a gun — it’s also a Pole-arm and a Club.

By: Bram

Bram — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 13:35:32 +0000

Blacktail – I like my HK91, but it I wouldn’t call it “low-weight.” No lighter than a synthetic M14 – too much steel in that bolt. Recoil is less than a .308 bolt rifle but way more than an M16. It is definitely a big-boy rifle.

By: Jerry in Detroit

Jerry in Detroit — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 15:49:07 +0000

The problem is that our military is standing by analyses and trade studies which do not stand up to field data.

By: Blacktail

Blacktail — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 07:18:10 +0000

J.M. Heinrichs,

I never mentioned “low weight & low recoil 7.62″ — rather, that the design of the CETME, SG-510, and G3 rifles significantly reduces 7.62x51mm recoil, and virtually eliminates barrel rise.

This is due to the Roller-Delayed Blowback operation of said rifles;
http://rkba.org/guns/principles/operating-systems/delayed-inertia.html

http://world.guns.ru/assault/as12-e.htm

By: Anon

Anon — Sat, 31 Oct 2009 16:41:11 +0000

It’s my understanding that the 6.8 SPC performs better at 50 meters and under(especially for penetration)but actually does worse than the 5.56 over 50 meters.

By: J.M. Heinrichs

J.M. Heinrichs — Sat, 31 Oct 2009 05:09:56 +0000

The story of assault rifle ammo: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/Assault.htm
… and there is no such thing as a “low weight & low recoil 7.62″.

Cheers

By: Blacktail

Blacktail — Sat, 31 Oct 2009 04:17:55 +0000

The REAL farce of the whole “medium”-power disaster is that 7.62x51mm NATO rifles with low weight, low recoil, and NO barrel rise have been available all along; the Spanish CETME Rifle, the Swiss SG-510, and the German H&K G3.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2o_6-bIYnWE

As for the 5.56x45mm, it glances off twigs and raindrops, has less than half the reach of the 7.62x51mm, 1/3 the total mass of the 7.62x51mm, 1/6 the Residual Energy at 500yds of the 7.62x51mm, no penetrating power, no stopping power, no anti-material utility, and no more of a “Meat Axe Effect” than ANY OTHER conical rifle bullet.

The lower weight, allowing you to carry twice the ammo at a given weight, doesn’t matter either — you need to shoot more than TWICE as many rounds TWICE as often with 5.56x45mm to do the damage of 7.62x51mm.

The tendency to fight at ranges within 300m is also completely meaningless, because it doesn’t justify *not being able* to fight at distances beyond 300m… OR that a bullet tailored for a shorter range will always — without exception — end up having the same weaknesses outlined above.

By: Bram

Bram — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 18:50:26 +0000

The Brits I met would trade in their crappy new rifles for the old FAL clones in a second – just as many of us wanted the M14 back. Far better rifles with a far better mid to long-range round.

By: Heartless Libertarian

Heartless Libertarian — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 15:25:09 +0000

Actually, almost every ‘assault rifle’ round ever designed, starting with the 7.92×33 kurz round, was optimized for targets within 300m – where studies have shown that the vast majority of direct-fire fights in the age of smokeless powder have taken place.

While the Mk262 Mod 1 will do better than the M855 at longer ranges, this is primarily a function of better accuracy.

The 6.8 SPC tails of significantly after 300m as well – it was designed mostly to deal with the problem of 5.56 not having enough oomph at the closer ranges common in urban combat.

Of the alternative rounds you mention, only the 6.5 Grendel was really designed for long ranges, due to the 6.5′s excellent ballistic coefficient.

And the 7.62 NATO – designed to mimic the ballistics of the .30-06, which assumed (as did all armies back then), that the ordinary rifleman needed a weapon he could employ at ranges out to 1,000 yards – would definitely work well where fire fights over 300m are common. Wonder what the British Army did with their L1A1s?

By: GunPundit » Blog Archive » Birt Report Disses the 5.56

GunPundit » Blog Archive » Birt Report Disses the 5.56 — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 13:00:22 +0000

[...] Over at Murdoc Online: Well, they’ve obviously not been shooting many poodles lately [...]