Blow his head off but don’t give him a bloody lip

Hero SEALS face rap for fiend’s bloody lip

Three Navy SEALs involved in nabbing one of Iraq’s most wanted terrorists are reportedly facing criminal charges related to his capture — all because he claimed he had a bloody lip.

The SEALs took down Ahmed Hasim Abed, the alleged mastermind of a ghastly 2004 incident in which four American contractors who worked security for Blackwater USA, were murdered in Fallujah and two of the bodies were hung from a bridge over the Euphrates River.

But instead of being praised as heroes, the SEALs are all facing charges and have hired lawyers, FoxNews.com reported.

The poor guy was transferred to Iraqi authorities, and at that time, after he was out of US control, he claimed he’d been punched in the face after being captured. He showed them a bloody lip to prove it.

So our guys were investigated and enough was apparently found to charge them.

They refused an Admirals Mast so it’s going to court marital.

Comments

  1. Typical Political Correct, Liberal BULL SHIT. And the military is gonna dance to the tune while the SEALS are raked over the coals.

    In my opinion they should have greased the dirtbag asshole.

    When will they ever learn:

    Your enemy is your enemy till he’s DEAD!

  2. There are no words to express how STUPID this is. This guy was involved in the murder and mutilation of 4 Americans, one of whom was a former SEAL…bloody lip? At least they followed orders and brought him in ALIVE.

  3. OH…..

    By the way gang, Have a great Thanksgiving Day tomorrow.

    Mine won’t be too happy since my mom passed away last Sunday.

    Keep the faith!!!

  4. I don’t understand why the Iraqis played along with this terrorist’s game. Giving him back forced the American commanders to investigate. But something else is going on.

    I’m glad they refused NJP. I highly doubt that any military jury not stacked with JAGs would take the word of 3 SEALS over a known terrorist.

  5. This is not surprising given the comments recently from the Army Chief of Staff and the head of the Naval Academy.

    It’s not the civilians who are to blame this time. The top brass has drunk the flavoraid and they are just as bad.

  6. =-= Wow, world never seems to amaze me on how STUPID people can be. As a friend of mine said:

    “These are fucking SEALS. They could have made his body never be found, and all they did was smack him one. I’d say they get medals for restraint.”

  7. I’m not even sure that the SEALs really did smack him. He could have done it to himself. It’s part of the way to do things on their team.

  8. This has to be the first time in history that soldiers at war have been arrested, just for using force against the enemy.

    At this rate, every fireteam will have to have a lawyer attached to it, to constantly advise the troops on how they are and aren’t allowed to fight…

  9. Some more BS I’ve noticed. So its the alleged 9-11 plotter, the alleged
    Fort Hood shooter, the alleged Fallujah murderer. So do they report Navy
    SEALs allegedly punched a terrorist in the face? No. Do they say SEALs
    allegedly abuse prisoner? No. Instead its SEALs charged with prisoner abuse.
    These alleged journalists continue to make me sick.

  10. Toejam, you have my condolences. Please take care of yourself, and hug the rest of your family extra hard for Thanksgiving.

    This isn’t just asinine, it’s part of a disturbing trend. KSM, was ready to plead guilty and go to the gallows before Obama and his team decided a show trial in New York was the way to go, you know, to prove how fair and high minded we are as a country. Principles before reality and all that. Any terrorist out there knows we are our own worst enemy when it comes to ham-stringing ourselves in our own defense. And they are using it every chance they get. This is just another test case. However it goes, you can expect to see a lot more to come.

    I don’t know what our Status Of Forces Agreement says on this topic, regarding charges filed by Iraqi investigation. But if it leads to Court Martialing our guys for behaving as soldiers, then it’s time to modify that agreement.

  11. Happy TG to all! Take care if you’re out on the roads!

    Toejam……….I’m very sorry to hear of your loss. Words are never adequate for situations like that…….it does fade with time, and their are always the good times to remember.

    The SEAL thing is kind of puzzling……….I can’t believe they ever came up with enough to go beyond a prelminary inquiry (I’ve extensive investigative experience including two years in internal affairs). One or more of the SEALs must have copped to it for cripes sake. To be honest, if it’d been me (the puncher not the punchee LOL!) I’d have fallen back on the time honored “I dunno, musta tripped or somethin'”. I agree with everyone that if all the terrorist/murderer got out of it was a post arrest bunged up lip……………then Allah surely smiled on him that day.

  12. I’m going to take a different tack on this, bearing in mind that I don’t know the circumstances of what went down any more than anybody posting here.

    There’s really only 2 scenarios, and I’ll preface each of them with the time honored, upper case IF:

    IF the SEALs being charged were legitimately defending themselves from a prisoner in their custody (forget about his status or what he’s suspected of. It doesn’t matter, he’s simply a prisoner at this point), then I hope that they are acquitted at Court Martial, and can continue on with their careers.

    But IF these SEALs fucked with the prisoner for no other reason than to get some “payback”, and they know this to be the case, then they should get convicted. Bear in mind, if this is the scenario, and they know they’re guilty of fucking with this guy, then accepting non-judicial punishment in the form of an Article 15 was in their best interests.

    Because if they are actually guilty of what they’re charged with, as I outlined in the second scenario, then they’re rolling the dice with their careers and their lives. It’s as simple as that.

    Just to qualify my comments a little, I was an Army Interrogator who dealt with a shit load of prisoners during the Gulf War, and my position on how they are to be dealt with was the same across the board, no matter who they were or what they might be suspected of. They aren’t to be fucked with, for a lot of reasons. Once they’re in your custody, they are out of the fight. They are classified as non-combatants, regardless of whatever status they may hold under the Law of Land Warfare, be it EPW, detainee, refugee, etc.

    And why SEALs were assigned to guard this guy after he was brought to the detention facility, I’ll never know. Fact is, I don’t think they were guarding him. I think they got to him and fucked with him simply because of who he was. Again, don’t know all the details, any more than any of you do. But I know how things are supposed to go with detainees and prisoners.

  13. Jerry

    Too hell with your “logic” and any ‘legal knowledge’
    no one made that scum bag be a terrorist or to kill and torture people. HE CHOSE IT!

    Play the game, PAY the Price!

  14. Jerry

    To hell with your “logic” and any ‘legal knowledge’
    no one made that scum bag be a terrorist or to kill and torture people. HE CHOSE IT!

    Play the game, PAY the Price!

  15. Neil-

    You obviously are too emotionally caught up in all this to give a rational response.

    Leave the discussion to us adults, and come back when you have a better argument than an ad hominen attack on my “logic” and “legal knowledge”.

    Before you do come back to comment, read my post again, and then brush up on The Law of Land Warfare (which I doubt you’ve ever read) and the UCMJ.

    And pay close attention to those big IFs that I threw into my argument. Bottom line though, if these sailors fucked this prisoner, for no other reason than fucking with him, while he was in custody and no longer a threat to anybody, and they decided to forgo a captains mast and go with a court martial, then they have nobody but themselves to blame if they get their ass handed to them by the panel with a guilty verdict.

    If they’re guilty of the charges, and get convicted at court martial of these charges, I have no sympathy for them. They should have taken the NJP and been done with it, saved themselves a lot of trouble.

  16. Jerry,

    Too hell with your “logic” and any ‘legal knowledge’

    You are mentally living with Alice in some land of how you think things should be instead of in the REAL world of how things actually are

    IF you are playing a game in which one side has to follow the rules and the other side does not, the side playing by the rules WILL LOSE! EVERY TIME!

    No one made that scum bag be a terrorist or to kill and torture people. HE CHOSE IT!

    Play the game, PAY the Price!

  17. SORRY for my many posts on the same thing

    My Webtv and Murdocs site many times do not get along so I think what I tred to post did not post when it did. Many times, Murdocs site turns my old Webtv off as it did three times last night.

    ALL that said, IT IS MY FAULT for my not checking to see if they had posted BEFORE I posted again. Thus I SORRY FOR MY SCREW UPS and I apologize to all for it!

  18. Neil-

    It’s pretty clear you have a poor understanding of the military and how the UCMJ works. Are you a Vet? Ever been in any of the situations similar to the one that the SEALs are currently facing?

    I sincerely doubt it. Go back, one more time when you’ve caught your breath and found that part of your brain that can be engaged rationally, and read my post again.

    If they’re innocent of the charges, and in fact tussled with this guy during the performance of their duties when he resisted and fought back, then they should be acquitted. I made myself clear on that in the first paragraph of my first post, but you decided to selectively edit that out when responding.

    But IF they simply went in and started fucking with this guy for the purpose of payback, and they know that is the way it played out, then they should have just accepted the NJP and drove on. Because IF that is what they did, and they’re found guilty at a court martial, they’re screwed. They won’t necessarily do a lot of time for the offense, if any, but that conviction will leave a mark. And what’s more, it will have been a righteous conviction for the prosecution.

    Got news for you Neil, once somebody has been gathered up off the battlefield and is in your custody, and becomes your prisoner, you don’t fuck with them. It doesn’t matter what they’re status is as a prisoner.

    I advise soldiers who are actively serving that, when they’re in a position to handle or guard prisoners, treat them all the same. Don’t deviate from their treatment, regardless of whether they’re the most heinous son of a bitch out there or somebody who has just been scooped up mistakenly (which, btw, happens a LOT).

    That way, you know the drill each and every time. Treating prisoners with dignity doesn’t equated to kowtowing to them or kissing their ass. But at that point when they’ve been captured, they’re out of the fight, and non-combatants. And anybody who wants to continue to treat them as combatants, and start fucking with them, and it’s found out, will find themselves in a jam. And rightfully so.

  19. SORRY for my many posts on the same thing

    My Webtv and Murdoc’s site many times do not get along so I think what I tried to post did not post when it did. Many times, Murdoc’s site turns my old Webtv off as it did three times last night.

    ALL that said, IT IS MY FAULT for my not checking to see if they had posted BEFORE I posted again. Thus I SORRY FOR MY SCREW UPS and I APOLOGIZE to ALL OF YOU for it!

  20. Jerry,

    Yes, I am a Vet. Over six years service in National Guard / Active Army Reserves. Plus over three years in the army on active duty. This included Advanced NCO School at Ft. Benning & as a paratrooper in the 101st Airborne.

    I am nearly 75, grew up during WWII and have probably forgotten more about all things military than you will ever learn.

    To be blunt, I DO NOT CARE about all your codes of conduct and any other BS. What I said goes!

    PERIOD! END OF STORY!

  21. I worked at the Camp Cropper detainee facility in Iraq for 15 months and have to say I am not surprised by this. These terrorists had us catering to them like slaves and everyone feared being brought up on charges due to any false statement these scumbags wanted to make. I myself was a medic and got investigated by CID because a detainee claimed I did not perform CPR on another detainee who had a heart attack and was dead when I got to the compound, well only two things saved me 1 the cameras clearly showed I did my duty and did perform CPR I even put myself in harms way by going into a compound that was not locked down to work on him! and 2 the mans own son who was also a detainee and saw everything thanked me and stated to CID that I had done everything I could. Otherwise I may have gone to jail simply on the word of a lying, murdering,terrorist! I feel for these SEALS and pray they are not punished for doing their jobs.

  22. Jerry …you speak of things you know little about! When I went to Iraq as a medic in a detainee facility I believed that these non combatants as you called them would be thankfull for being showed kindness and humanity. I myself have treated detainees who have beheaded American soldiers. I have cleaned and dressed their wounds and hand delivered medicine to them daily. And these same detainees swore at me ,insulted my mother and wife, spit at me, threw feces and open water bottles full of urine at me,and the abuse from their end did not stop until I finaly figured out that their culture sees kindness as weakness and they do not respect it at all. So yes I did have to be physical and at times tell one to shut the fuck up before I threw has ass in the SHU (special housing unit or solitary) When I took on this attitude with them they treated me decent and it allowed me to do my job without being abused daily. So in short I will just say unless you have been there and had to deal with these people yourself then you should not judge these SEALs because you don’t realy know what your talking about.

  23. Jerry…It makes more sense now that I have read your earlier post. You were an Interrogator during Desert Storm. So when you saw a detainee for your little interview/rap session you had an already compliant probably restrained detainee sitting nicely for your little talk. Someone else had to restrain him and bring him to you and if your rap session ever went south and your new terrorist friend started being nasty you had a guard nearby to do the dirty work of transporting this non compliant combative detainee. And this poor guard would be the one facing charges if this detainee decided to slam his face into a wall during the tussle and later claim abuse. ( I have seen detainees injure themselves so they could claim abuse)… Again I have to say …You dont realy know and desert storm was a long time ago!

  24. Neil-

    I’m not going to go to all caps like yourself, but I’m going to tell you straight up:

    You’re wrong.

    These are not just “my” codes of conduct. The code of conduct applies to every serviceman and woman. And once again, you missed the caveat at the beginning of my first post. You know, the one in which I stated that if they didn’t do anything wrong, then they shouldn’t accept the mast, and should indeed try to clear their name through the court martial process.

    But if they went in there with the intention of fucking with that prisoner, and if an investigation shows that this is indeed what happened, then if they’re convicted, they’ve got no one but themselves to blame. They would have been better off going with the NJP and driving on with their lives AND their mission.

    I’ll borrow the quote that you applied to the prisoner in this case, and apply it to the sailors. Let’s forget for a minute that they’re SEALs, as if that gives them some sort of special priveleges when it comes to fucking with prisoners, if in fact that is what they purposely did.

    Play the game, PAY the price!

    That little quote cuts both ways, and it’s abundantly clear that regardless of your veteran status, you didn’t learn many lessons along the way. Having dealt with a lot of prisoners on the battlefield, I can say that there is only one way to treat them, as long as they don’t get out of hand and start causing trouble.

    The SEALs were offered NJP, they turned it down and opted for the court martial. That is their right, and I hope they have good counsel and get a fair shake. But the fact that they’ve decided to play a game of chicken with these charges, and put their careers at risk, is all on them. It’s their choice.

    I don’t know the whole story about what happened, and neither do you. But if your position is that it’s perfectly acceptable to start messing with prisoners, regardless of their detainee status, then it’s clear you have no idea what you’re talking about. I’ve discussed this issue with guys that have way more experience than I do, and have served for many years in SF, and they agree with me.

    As I said initially, if they didn’t do the deed, then I sincerely hope they are acquitted. But if they’re just getting into a pissing contest with the people bringing the charges, and know that they fucked with the prisoner with no provocation on his part, then they deserve what they get.

    Like I said, if they just took the Captains Mast, we wouldn’t even be hearing about this. It’s like an article 15 in the Army, which is akin to getting your wrist slapped. It was their choice to dial it up a notch with the court martial.

  25. You just do not get it do you?

    You are just a typical SHEEP who follows old rules no matter how STUPID they are now.

    We are NOT fighting a country where we can defeat them by capturing their capital, killing and/or capturing their leadership, defeating their army and occupying their lands. We are NOT fighting anyone who follows ANY rules on the proper treatment of prisoners or of the totally innocent!

    ALL they want to do is KILL EVERY MAN, WOMAN, CHILD and ever babies they can. IF they can they WILL use Atomic Chemical and Biological weapons. IF they can they will wipe us off the face of the earth.

    They do NOT take prisoners except to TORTURE AND KILL THEM. IF they could, they WILL KILL EVERYONE who is NOT of their religious sect and they will not stop until we KILL ENOUGH of them to cause them to stop.

    The rules which YOU, in your illogical and irrational “Alice in Wonderland type of thinking of how the world should be” and NOT how the world REALLY IS, believe we should follow were NOT made to fight this kind of enemy.

    THE CODE OF CONDUCT IS OUT DATED and it SHOULD BE CHANGED!

  26. I think everyone might want to take a chill pill and wait to see what pans out here. My take on it given the professional nature of SEAL’s is that they didn’t abuse this dirtbag. But we shall see. This will be high profile and we shall find out fairly soon what really happened. I cannot believe how pissed some of you are getting when you have no facts to work with. Calm the fuck down.

  27. “Prisoner of War” is a purely voluntary condition. Any time you decide you no longer want to be a prisoner, simply fight or flee and you will be killed. Those are the rules.

    During the Gulf War we handled thousands of prisoners. At one point we had an incident with a prisoner who broke ranks and tried to rush a bus taking other prisoners back to Saudi Arabia. A very large Marine delivered a horizontal but-stroke to his chest – driving several ribs into his lungs. No repercussions for the Marine since he legally could have killed the man. The prisoner got chopper ride back to Saudi.

    The Administration can not distinguish between EPW’s and suspected criminals arrested by law-enforcement. Terrorists are now training recruits to complain loudly about mistreatment as soon as they are captured. Now we have a deployed SEAL unit doing nothing except investigating allegations from a captured terrorist – no the way to win a war.

    I can’t believe an officer tried to NJP SEALs based on a terrorist complaint. We have to trust our people if we are going to win.

  28. Neil-

    You’re not working with facts, you’re working with your own opinion.

    Everybody is entitled to their own opinions, nobody is entitled to their own facts. It’s important to know the difference. You don’t know any more about the circumstances of this case than I do, and you certainly know less about how prisoners are to be treated, regardless of the reasons they’re being detained.

    I like the comment about me being a typical “sheep”, in all caps no less. I can assure you, you have no idea what I’m all about. I have a pretty good idea about what you’re about, though. You seem like one of those quick to anger types, who falls apart at the first sign of trouble because he can’t contain his emotions.

  29. Yes, I have anger management problems.

    That said, I have been in MANY “tight” situations as a bouncer, paratrooper, deep sea diver and a person who gets involved breaking up fights as well as fighting criminals. And as a lifeguard, I saved more than a few lives.

    I have come close do dying MANY times both quickly and (twice) slowly in a hospital. NOT ONCE, have I “fallen apart” at all. Rather I have handled the problem.

    I never claimed to have any facts I do not have. THE FACTS ARE a TERRORIST leader who would KILL YOU, and ALL YOUR LOVED ONES, got a Bloody lip. B.F.D.!

  30. Which reminds me, about three weeks ago, at nearly 75 years of age, I confronted a young big black guy who was chasing hie ex-girl friend with the intent of beating the hell out of her. (He had alrady knocked down another man who tried to stop him.)

    Yes, I used pepper sray to stop him., Only I still stood between the girl and him and I warned him to stop at least twice. As he did not, I sprayed him.

    So tell me CHILD, all about how I fall apart. Just more proof you are clueless!

  31. Jerry-
    One more thing you need to remember is that while you were an Interrogator during Desert Storm you were dealing with Iraqi Army that were for the most part were jumping out of their holes with their hands up and giving up. Completly compliant and “non combative” as you called them. Today we are not fighting soldiers of a nation that we are at war with. They are jihad soldiers coming from all over the world with the sole intent of killing Americans and anyone else that does not agree with their twisted doctrine. Desert Storm was a different war, a long time ago and you had the luxury of fighting an Army that for the most part played by the rules. We don’t have that luxury today so don’t judge us!

  32. Shawn-

    Don’t lecture me on the ins and outs of interrogation. Were you an interrogator? Are you responsible for handling prisoners, or carryin out their interrogations? Can you do it in their language, and are you well versed in their ways?

    If not, then you’re just blowing smoke.

    Beyond that, exactly what sort of treatment do you believe prisoners should be subjected to? I’m not talking about “coercive interrogation techniques”, I’m just talking about day to day treatment once in custody?

    As far as comparing today’s prisoners to the ones I dealt with in Iraq back in 1991, a better comparison would be the fanatical jihadist prisoner circa 2009 with the fanatical Japanese prisoner circa 1943-44.

    Read up a little bit on two of the most experienced and successful interrogators in WWII, one a German in the European theater, and the other an American Marine officer in the Pacific theater.

    Truly professional, and successful, interrogators recognize their methods and techniques right away, and study them like piano students study Mozart. There may be more than one way to skin a cat, but usually there is one way that works the best.

    Here’s a couple of links, pay special attention to the ones concerning Sherwood Moran, the Marine Major who headed up the interrogation efforts of some very fanatical Japanese prisoners who fell into our hands. Fanaticism is fanaticism, whether it be religious or political or social. What works on one fanatic works on them all.

    The fact is, when somebody fucks with a prisoner, it instantly makes the interrogators job that much harder, especially if the interrogator isn’t aware about what occured.

    Here are some links about Moran:

    http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200506/budiansky

    http://home.comcast.net/~drmoran/home.htm

    http://desertbeacon.blogspot.com/2006/09/sherwood-moran-and-presidents-very.html

    Here are some links to Hans Joicham Scharff, the famed Luftwaffe interrogator. Scharff and Moran used the same basic precepts, and it all came down to how the prisoner was treated.

    Scharff’s is a fascinating story, and he eventually emigrated to the US after the war. With the endorsement of the American fliers he interrogated, no less.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanns_Scharff

    http://www.amazon.com/Interrogator-Joachim-Luftwaffe-Schiffer-Military/dp/0764302612

  33. Neil-

    It’s pretty clear that you’re on some sort of medication, and that you’re currently off it.

    OK, you’re a badass. We get it.

  34. Jerry…
    I did not claim nor do I claim to know anything about how to carry out actual interrogations. And what does me not speaking their language have to do with anything. I knew all the language I needed..shut up,look away, squat down, hands on your head etc.
    I suspect you threw this comment in to show that you are intelligent. Ok we get it, your book smart. But I was responsible for looking over detainees after the interrogations to check for indicators of abuse and was often called to check on detainees that got rude with interrogators and had to be put in restraint chairs. I do stand behind everything I said and you know if you realy were an interrogator that you never had to escort, restrain or even speak to a detainee that was acting out of line. I had to treat guards that were bit,scratched,punched,kicked,and even stabbed. I have been attacked by detainees as well. Like I said before you did not deal with this and if you say any different you are not being honest. Have you ever had to restrain a detainee….You and me both know the answer is no. Try to restrain someone without causing injury that is trying to kill you and you will get a big surprise. I manned up and stated that I knew nothing about the interrogation process…Are you man enough to confess that you know very little about controlling violent detainees…I suspect not. Bottom line is bloody lips happen during violent altercations.

  35. Shawn-

    I screened over 350 prisoners in a 36 hour period back in ’91. Two of them lunged across the table at me before the MPs could “control” them.

    I had them face down and pinned before my guards even reacted. Don’t start with your shit talking about what I know and don’t know.

    As for escorting prisoners, I led them to and from our holding area all the time, and walked among them also. As for my language background, I’m certainly not trying to come off as more “intelligent”, as you claim. I do know that the majority of troops in the field are ignorant of the language and customs of the area to which they are deployed, and the people they are dealing with.

    It causes more problems than it’s worth, and any claim you make to the contrary is total BS. The biggest problem with detainees after they’re captured is the tendency to handle them as if you are still fighting them in the field, a war by other means, if you will. I’m all for necessary precautions when dealing with them, but most times, the war goes on within the detention centers. It causes problems, and if there is any intel to be gleaned from any of them, the opportunity to extract that info becomes tougher when the people who “handle” them start fucking with them.

    I had to set a couple of the younger MPs straight with this back when I was in, and supposedly they were the ones who were trained to handle prisoners. They could have fooled me.

  36. Jerry-
    I will just let you live in your Desert Storm 2 week long fantasy war and perhaps one day you will figure out that your 2 month long vacation in the sandbox is a bit different than the 15 month long multiple tour war we are fighting now. I wish you could have used your extensive language skills in Iraq’s capitol of Baghdad but as I remember you all turned back so we had to go finish the job years later. In a war the average soldier does not need to speak the local language to achieve victory. I am glad I don’t speak the language because it would be just one more reminder of that shithole of a country on a daily basis. By the way there is there is a high demand for people with your language skills and the pay is great! So why don’t you push your fat middle aged gut away from your computer and go contribute to the current war effort instead of living many years in the past. If your not willing to do this than you have nothing to offer other than what you think things should be like in a war you know nothing about.

  37. Jerry-
    350 over a 36 hour period…..WOW….Try over 3,000 every day for over 15 months…I dealt with more than 350 detainees every day for 15 months. I really would not be bragging about that pityfull statistic of 350 in 36 hours. By todays standards that is nothing. And you had them pinned face down when they lunged at you…sounds like you came dangerously close to giving a detainee a bloody lip which would make you a criminal by your standards. You better watch out they might have to come charge you with abuse you detainee abuser.

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