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	<title>Comments on: China&#8217;s Subs Getting Quieter</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.murdoconline.net/archives/9061.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
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	<item>
		<title>By: Nadnerbus</title>
		<link>http://www.murdoconline.net/archives/9061.html/comment-page-1#comment-344391</link>
		<dc:creator>Nadnerbus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Dec 2009 09:35:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.murdoconline.net/?p=9061#comment-344391</guid>
		<description>Biodiesel. Just follow the smell of french fries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Biodiesel. Just follow the smell of french fries.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Blacktail</title>
		<link>http://www.murdoconline.net/archives/9061.html/comment-page-1#comment-344359</link>
		<dc:creator>Blacktail</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 07:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.murdoconline.net/?p=9061#comment-344359</guid>
		<description>These guys have figured it out --- call it &quot;Green&quot;, and Congress will FORCE the Navy to buy SSKs!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These guys have figured it out &#8212; call it &#8220;Green&#8221;, and Congress will FORCE the Navy to buy SSKs!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Murdoc</title>
		<link>http://www.murdoconline.net/archives/9061.html/comment-page-1#comment-344340</link>
		<dc:creator>Murdoc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 15:38:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.murdoconline.net/?p=9061#comment-344340</guid>
		<description>Hybrid. Duh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hybrid. Duh.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.murdoconline.net/archives/9061.html/comment-page-1#comment-344339</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 15:19:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.murdoconline.net/?p=9061#comment-344339</guid>
		<description>&gt;Like instead of “diesel”, you say “multi-phasic propulsion”.

Just call it &quot;biodiesel&quot; and all of the lefties in Congress will line up to support it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;Like instead of “diesel”, you say “multi-phasic propulsion”.</p>
<p>Just call it &#8220;biodiesel&#8221; and all of the lefties in Congress will line up to support it.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: jaymaster</title>
		<link>http://www.murdoconline.net/archives/9061.html/comment-page-1#comment-344332</link>
		<dc:creator>jaymaster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 23:53:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.murdoconline.net/?p=9061#comment-344332</guid>
		<description>Extra credit points to Bill!

I still refuse to buy Toshiba products….</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Extra credit points to Bill!</p>
<p>I still refuse to buy Toshiba products….</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Blacktail</title>
		<link>http://www.murdoconline.net/archives/9061.html/comment-page-1#comment-344331</link>
		<dc:creator>Blacktail</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 20:11:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.murdoconline.net/?p=9061#comment-344331</guid>
		<description>GeekLethal,

Hey, it&#039;s worked before.Case in point;

You know that &quot;new&quot; M908 HE-OR (High-Explosive Obstacle-Reduction) round that the US Army is using? Look-up information on the World War 2-era APHE (Armor-Piercing High-Explosive) round --- HE-OR is APHE.

Even MORE pathetic, look-up cutaway drawings of the M830A1 HEAT (also called &quot;MPAT&quot;), and compare them to the &quot;new&quot; M908 HE-OR. HE-or is just re-packaged HEAT with a steel penetrator instead of a copper charge liner!


Unfortunately, this was a total waste of time and (other people&#039;s) money, because of the reason APHE went out of style as an anti-tank round.
Against Heavy Armor, APHE can penetrate RHA steel equivalent to twice the projectile&#039;s diameter (i.e., 120mm HE-OR can probably penetrate 240mm of steel). That&#039;s pretty impressive, but M829A1 APFSDS penetrates more than 600mm of steel, and M830 HEAT --- also 120mm --- penetrates 800mm of steel. In short, HEAT and Sabot rounds have made APHE (as an anti-tank munition) a pointless endeavor.
As an anti-material round (more to the point of HE-OR), APHE has never been as effective as HE, and can&#039;t even touch the massive destructive potential of HESH.
As an anti-personnel round, APHE is greatly inferior to Canister, HE, HE-FRAG, and APERS (basically, EVERYTHING normally thrown at enemy personnel).

Bottom line; there&#039;s no justification for the very EXISTENCE of APHE rounds,`and therefore, no justification for HE-OR.


I know, I REALLY went off on a limb there, but old ideas are CONSTANTLY being re-run, and disguised as new ideas ---and not always for the better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GeekLethal,</p>
<p>Hey, it&#8217;s worked before.Case in point;</p>
<p>You know that &#8220;new&#8221; M908 HE-OR (High-Explosive Obstacle-Reduction) round that the US Army is using? Look-up information on the World War 2-era APHE (Armor-Piercing High-Explosive) round &#8212; HE-OR is APHE.</p>
<p>Even MORE pathetic, look-up cutaway drawings of the M830A1 HEAT (also called &#8220;MPAT&#8221;), and compare them to the &#8220;new&#8221; M908 HE-OR. HE-or is just re-packaged HEAT with a steel penetrator instead of a copper charge liner!</p>
<p>Unfortunately, this was a total waste of time and (other people&#8217;s) money, because of the reason APHE went out of style as an anti-tank round.<br />
Against Heavy Armor, APHE can penetrate RHA steel equivalent to twice the projectile&#8217;s diameter (i.e., 120mm HE-OR can probably penetrate 240mm of steel). That&#8217;s pretty impressive, but M829A1 APFSDS penetrates more than 600mm of steel, and M830 HEAT &#8212; also 120mm &#8212; penetrates 800mm of steel. In short, HEAT and Sabot rounds have made APHE (as an anti-tank munition) a pointless endeavor.<br />
As an anti-material round (more to the point of HE-OR), APHE has never been as effective as HE, and can&#8217;t even touch the massive destructive potential of HESH.<br />
As an anti-personnel round, APHE is greatly inferior to Canister, HE, HE-FRAG, and APERS (basically, EVERYTHING normally thrown at enemy personnel).</p>
<p>Bottom line; there&#8217;s no justification for the very EXISTENCE of APHE rounds,`and therefore, no justification for HE-OR.</p>
<p>I know, I REALLY went off on a limb there, but old ideas are CONSTANTLY being re-run, and disguised as new ideas &#8212;and not always for the better.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: GeekLethal</title>
		<link>http://www.murdoconline.net/archives/9061.html/comment-page-1#comment-344329</link>
		<dc:creator>GeekLethal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 14:08:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.murdoconline.net/?p=9061#comment-344329</guid>
		<description>Nadnerbus,
Well you might be on to something.  NASA&#039;s selling people on the idea that what you really need to go back to the Moon is a huge rocket, right, with like a...a...capsule on top...yeah we did that 40 years ago but today, WHAT a capsule!

Saavy contractors could sell diesel boats to the USN, they just need to let the marketroids work up the language.  Like instead of &quot;diesel&quot;, you say &quot;multi-phasic propulsion&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nadnerbus,<br />
Well you might be on to something.  NASA&#8217;s selling people on the idea that what you really need to go back to the Moon is a huge rocket, right, with like a&#8230;a&#8230;capsule on top&#8230;yeah we did that 40 years ago but today, WHAT a capsule!</p>
<p>Saavy contractors could sell diesel boats to the USN, they just need to let the marketroids work up the language.  Like instead of &#8220;diesel&#8221;, you say &#8220;multi-phasic propulsion&#8221;.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nadnerbus</title>
		<link>http://www.murdoconline.net/archives/9061.html/comment-page-1#comment-344323</link>
		<dc:creator>Nadnerbus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 07:27:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.murdoconline.net/?p=9061#comment-344323</guid>
		<description>Diesel subs are not sexy, therefore we will never get any. Even if we could build four of them for the price of one nuke (number pulled out of my ass).

Now if the diesel used some sort of multi-phasic propulsion framus, then there&#039;d be interest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Diesel subs are not sexy, therefore we will never get any. Even if we could build four of them for the price of one nuke (number pulled out of my ass).</p>
<p>Now if the diesel used some sort of multi-phasic propulsion framus, then there&#8217;d be interest.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Blacktail</title>
		<link>http://www.murdoconline.net/archives/9061.html/comment-page-1#comment-344321</link>
		<dc:creator>Blacktail</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 06:35:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.murdoconline.net/?p=9061#comment-344321</guid>
		<description>Murdoc,
Touche.

I&#039;ve heard the same idea from others as well, but these ideas always seem to fall on deaf ears. A Sub Captain will tell you that reforming the Catholic Church would be easier; an Admiral would fly into a tirade about why the system is &quot;perfect&quot;.


A Congressman... well, forget them --- the only thing THEY&#039;RE good at is keeping a job that pays them well to do nothing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Murdoc,<br />
Touche.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve heard the same idea from others as well, but these ideas always seem to fall on deaf ears. A Sub Captain will tell you that reforming the Catholic Church would be easier; an Admiral would fly into a tirade about why the system is &#8220;perfect&#8221;.</p>
<p>A Congressman&#8230; well, forget them &#8212; the only thing THEY&#8217;RE good at is keeping a job that pays them well to do nothing.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://www.murdoconline.net/archives/9061.html/comment-page-1#comment-344320</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 06:23:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.murdoconline.net/?p=9061#comment-344320</guid>
		<description>You mean the Japanese haven&#039;t sold them propeller technology yet?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You mean the Japanese haven&#8217;t sold them propeller technology yet?</p>
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